Descent-World Rides The Empire Cycles AP-1
Empire Cycles AP-1
Ali over at Descent-World has a lengthy write up on Empire Cycles’ AP-1 downhill bike. The development of this 8.5″ travel bike utilizing casting technology has came a long way from the prototypes and is now available for purchase. Check out the article to find out what they thought of it.
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Did anyone catch what these frames weigh? I didn’t see any mention in the article, and given that the bike is an entirely new mfg process, I would think people want to know these things…
If weight is an issue and the article doesn’t mention it, then I think it calls into question the objectivity of the review.
“At fourteen pounds for the frame you would perhaps expect tight, flat corners to be its Achilles heel but that is absolutely not the case and indeed rides far lighter than many frames due to the…”
As author of the above review, I feel that i’m best placed to comment on this. It weighs 14lb (real weight) inc all dropouts, axle etc. The key to the bike not feeling this heavy is that the back end is not only very stiff but also extremely light. A lot of the weight is in the front section and this means that the ride is very balanced (unsprung weight of course being worth a lot more than sprung when it comes to suspension performance).
Weight is not an issue. Having been racing this season aboard a 224, I would gladly trade the Orange’s weight for the performance of the Empire. Whilst many will view it as ‘just another single pivot’, those are riders who perhaps aren’t quite in tune with what is possible given the technology currently available to produce frames and shocks. Objectivity is the name of the game.
since its still in testing they probably haven’t released the weight yet. as it may slightly change.
if you haven’t noticed, most reviews these days are simply fancy advertising.
Cool to see ya chime in Ali. With you saying that the rear end is lighter than the front does it feel unbalanced compared to your Orange (since the Empire you say is weighted front heavy)? With it being 14lbs are they trying to make sure it doesn’t break? It would seem that they should be able to get it down a good bit more.
They are only making one size if I recall so that limits who can ride the bike unfortunately right now. Any idea on how much each mold costs? That could be quite spendy I imagine. Can they modify the exisiting mold to modify it or do they have to create a whole new mold to try out prototypes?
Also, the use of 150mm hubs (outside of hope’s) often do have wider flanges as well as building a dishless wheel (which you can’t get with a 135mm wheel easily), increased clearance for tires/wheels in some designs, a wider bb to match the 150mm hub chainline (increase stability by having a wider stance) and more welding area for the bb shell, etc.
Nice to see some unique stuff out there though, definitely would love to throw a leg over that one.
Hey, no worries. To Chad, this bike is in production and available to buy. As an Expert level rider in the UK I feel that I am well placed to comment on how bikes ride, having ridden virtually all major bikes over the last ten years.
In regards to the balance of the bike, it’s actually one of the most balanced bikes I’ve ridden as the weight feels to be around the BB area. Put it this way, you certainly don’t notice any real weight imbalance in the front compared to most bikes. The light weight rear end just means that it can track a lot better as there is less inertia to overcome for it to change direction. Put simply, it works and is a very impressive ride.
There will be a larger size available in the future but as it stands just now, the Medium is the size that the majority of riders would go for in any case. In a larger frame, the downtube would need to be a different dimension so it would be a new mould required but it will come.
Yes, some bikes do need the clearance that a wider back end offers for links etc but with this, and as with the Oranges, that isn’t necessary. The back end is designed so as to allow a virtually dishless wheel (they have a diagram on their siteof how this looks) and there is a serious amount of tyre clearance too. The 83mm BB on there gives a good chainline too. As it all is, it works and works well with the 83mm BB and 150mm dropouts with a dishless 135mm wheel. I’m yet to be convinced about the benefits of a 150mm hub myself so I can see exactly why Empire have gone the way they have with the design.
weight is not an issue in dh/trail biking.
it’s just the way you use the bike.
my bike is 57lbs quite heavy compare to ordinary dh bike,
but i’m happy for it